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Ensign Sailing Forum

Deck Restoration
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So I now have the Non skid on and waiting for it to cure before carefully taking off the tape and seeing how it looks. My guess is I will be happy with the non skid areas and less so with some of the gloss areas. Found the non skid relatively easy to get on. Definitely true that the surface you start with is what you will end up with - I can spot some little divots that I did not get smoothed out.


I used Perfection 2 part and Awl Grip Tex Fine non skid that a friend had supplied multiple quarts of. Used one inch wide tape to tape off next to the toe rail and around the cabin top. Did a three inch center strip from front of the cabin top to the bow under the bow cleat.


To get the non skid on I created a large scale shaker from a 5.5 inch diameter and 6 inch tall plastic container with a screw top. The size is great because you can put an entire quart of the dry non skid in it and go to town. I drilled close to 50 holes in the plastic top, 1/16 inch, and removed the plastic nubbins after drilling. I experimented with other hole sizes but with the fine Grip Tex those seemed to be the right diameter so that I had to shake to get the material out and it would not just flow out too fast. Gave me good control over getting the right amount of non-skid coverage down.


I then rollered and tipped on the 2 part paint for each section and shook on the non skid before moving onto the next section. The trick appears to be to make sure you get the paint completely covered with non skid. The Grip Tex is white and the paint was gray. By the time I was done the deck was covered in a frosting of white. I used a bit over 2 quarts of the Grip Tex so would recommend getting three. "Fine" seems to be right so that the deck does not become a "knee burner"


Came back after 12 hours and used a little dustpan and brush and recovered a little over 1 quart of the grip tex that I had put down. The rest I blew off with a shopvac blower. After that it was a matter of mixing up more 2 part and painting again. So far it looks like I got a nice even coverage down and not many brush strokes or on even areas. Another trick also appears to be rollering on with a "dry" roller and not loading it up with much paint.. I ended up using all of a quart of the 2 part paint so would recommend buying two quarts just in case and returning one if you want to.


I have a bunch of pictures that I will post once I get the hardware back on.


Robin

Saw this after your earlier post. Peason used a lot of fiberglass everywhere on the boat so my perception is that water ingress into the fiberglass surface is not much of a problem - certainly water ingress into the balsa core is a huge problem but I've only seen that where through deck fittings were not sealed.


You could absolutely do an interlux barrier coat, tow part and try it as a sealer, really tough stuff. From what you describe you would be ok with some cracks re-emerging over time as long as it's not a complete disaster :-)


Ron,

I was fortunate the first time I painted was back in 07 and the deck had already been painted once before and some of the original deck pattern had already been worn off or painted over. I did not have the crazing you are describing. So it was a matter of sanding off all of the paint that was there as i was not sure if it was one or two part. Since I knew I wanted two part paint for barrier coat I sanded every stich of paint off and then dremeled out as many of the cracks in the fiberglass as i could find. Tedious to refill and sand back but was only way I know of to get to a good surface again.


From a crazing perspective am not sure what to advise as I have not had that to deal with fortunately - You could try sanding as much as you can and then go over with multiple coats of 2 part barrier paint and sand between coats. Or you could try mixing up a bunch of west system with a lighter amount of low density filler dust (red stuff) so that it oozes into all of the cracks that you have. Messy either way. I guess the biggest concern I'd have is that the gel coat is continuing to crack over time and that those cracks could continue to emerge after painting.


On the other hand two part barrier paint from interlux is really tough stuff and I could see that working for you versus having to sand all what you have off.

I have been looking at this:  https://www.boatoutfitters.com/tuff-coat-rubberized-non-skid-coating.  A primer is recommended and they sell it with a one part or a 2 part primer. This product is popular with entire fishing boats which get a lot more foot traffic than a sailboat deck. Anyone following my efforts should always consider the following:

1.  Old Boat  Built in 1968.  Paid 2K for it.  Love it, but not trying to remotely turn it into a 30K show boat!
2.  I keep the hull painted and clean. (Our club has a neat railway to pull sailboats.  We can easily inspect and clean our bottoms 3-4 times a year.) There are no blisters.  But it is a long way from a mirror smooth racing hull.
3.  The deck is badly crazed.  Looks like someone laid screen material over it.  That said, it is not chipping away. It stays in place. So I am not sure that crazing is even the right word for it. 
4. The fiberglass is solid right now. There are no soft spots. The chain plates are rock solid. I am competitive in club racing winning my fair share. This is a very usable boat. I am concerned about eventual water permeation into the deck. Have seen this in other Ensigns at our club and it is not pretty.  Would be a fatal condition for me.
5.  My mission is to seal the deck to prevent any water intrusion into the fiberglass.  Looks are secondary.  I prefer a textured surface. In my mind it will hide imperfections and make it easier to get a respectable finish.
6.  Robin has me considering sanding down to fiberglass.  If I do this though, I would be inclined to come back with new gelcoat before painting - perhaps a West Marine product.  
7.  THE unanswered question for me is "Would a 2-part epoxy barrier coat primer like Interlux 1000/1001, seal the crazed gel coat so I could do this without completely removing the gelcoat?"  

Ron


This level of detail is SO helpful to those of us who are new to doing any boatwork beyond the basics of revarnishing the coaming and painting the bottom.

Keep it coming and would love to see any pictures you have of how things went along the way!

Thanks,

Gay

 

Freestyle #383

 

Robin,  I am curious how many days it took you to completely sand the gel coat off an Ensign deck?

Sent from my iPhone

Ron,

Have found in painting that what ever surface you start with is really the surface you end up with. Now that I'm painting again I would recommend you get very aggressive with sanding off what is there and get down to the fiberglass.

Tools:

  1. Belt Sander for rapid removal of larger areas
  2. Random Orbit Sander for getting a smooth surface
  3. Triangular "Mouse" sander to get into smaller areas and to do the outside of the toe rail and get a little closer to the corners
  4. Dremel for grinding out cracks in the fiber glass

The above 4 are to avoid as much hand sanding as possible - you will need to do that between the winch pedestal and toe rail and in other areas. But it is way better to buy a lot of sand paper than wear yourself out with hand work.


Without seeing your deck I would start with belt sander at 60 grit and remove the crazed gel coat. Have used 40 grit and found it to be too aggressive


For random Orbit would use 80 grit to get the surface smoother


After you have removed anything that is cracked on the surface you will have to identify any fiberglass cracks and use the dremel to grind back to un cracked fiberglass. Fill back in using West system epoxy with the pumps and the low density filler. When I started filling back in all of the areas I had ground out I mixed up two pumps worth of the west system and mixed in the low density filler (get the big size of the filler). You need the mixed volume to be peanut butter consistency to prevent sagging - it is amazing how much of the filler dust you need to mix in to achieve this. You won't get it correct right out of the gates but don't worry you can sand off anything that has dribbled when it cures.


You'll need to do multiple passes with the filler as it shrinks somewhat when curing and sags as well so it just takes some extra passes to fill it all in.


Once you've go the surface filled in and sanded back smooth with 80 grit it's time to sand the entire surface with 120 grit with the random orbit sander and "Mouse" sander - you are done with the belt sander as that is only good for rapid removal of what was there to start with.


A good two part barrier coat is a must in my opinion. Durable and you can put either a two part or one part top coat over it. If you use a one part barrier coat you are limited to a one part top coat.


Probably more than you wanted to know. Have found that if I get the surface right the painting goes more quickly. When I rush and move on to painting too soon is when the end result is not a s good or I end up going back to filling in bad surface areas with filler and re-sanding and re barrier coating


Robin







Ryan, I ended up using just over 1 quart for the gloss but it was mainly because I messed up and used the wrong solvent to thin with on the first several coats. Looking back on it I should have done more with the barrier paint and surface prep and would have only needed 3 very thinly applied top coats to cover everything. I wasted the first two coats.


Would not recommend a gallon - though the way they price quarts cost wise it will be close but you wont have so much left over.


Robin

So it's been a little while since I posted on deck painting - am done with the gloss part of the job. A so so outcome. I learned that solvent 333 is not the same as 2333 which is the brushing solvent for Perfection - a lot of sanding later and two more coats and I am calling it done for now. Will be moving on to non-skid next. On the Gloss, some parts came out ok and others not so great - but at some point its time to get ready to go sailing :-)

Ron,

I used the same for barrier coat - I really like that product, really tough stuff and sands relatively well.


Robin

Jonathon,

Thanks for the info - 2 part perfection is exactly what I am using. Will have to find high density foam rollers...When I was doing the barrier coat I had a foam roller but it must have been the wrong type as it fell apart during the painting - big mess and more sanding...feel like I've done 5 times more sanding than someone who actually knows what they are doing :-)


Thanks again,

Robin

Robin,

When I painted the topsides of Elan with 2 Part Interlux Perfection, I had good results using high density foam rollers ("zip rollers").  I rolled, my Dad tipped.  We worked in 2 foot sections, and allowed a little time before tipping, as some bubbles broke on their own.

Let us know how this goes.  I still have to do my own deck.

Jon Simpson
E160 Elan
Keep us informed Robin.  I will do likewise.  I am going to be curious to see how the two part Interlux barrier coat I am going to apply looks and feels underfoot.  Then I’ll decide on top coat. .  Ron

Sent from my iPhone

I am late to this thread but wanted to share that I too am re-painting the deck. Am up to the point of applying the paint to the glossy areas like the toe rail and sides of cabin top. My plan is to get three coats of gloss down before taping it off to do the non skid areas. I've been using two part interlux paints for barrier and for gloss areas. Have been following the directions on the paint carefully and thinning to the 10% max that the directions call for. ...very small batches. Am doing roller and tip method and my first attempt on the glossy areas was, um, less than perfect. So I have some sanding to do and need to find a more appropriate roller as I think that was part of the issue.


Any suggestions on rollering and tipping would be appreciated


For non-skid areas my plan is to continue with interlux two part paint and have the non skid material in as large a salt shaker as I can find. Hoping that if I roller on a light coat of 10% thinned paint that I can shake on the nonskid and let it dry before sweeping or vacuuming off the excess non skid and apply the finish coat. I've had some advice already to use the salt shaker from a height of 3 - 4 feet above the surface to better randomize the coverage...


I guess the good news is that if I really don't like the outcome I can always sand it off and redo - its only paint :-)


I do like the two part paint versus the water based approach as it just stands up so much better over time.


Good luck!

Robin Durrschmidt

Magic #363

Hi Gay,

So to be clear, I did not actually use Kiwi Grip - yet.  Someone else in this thread or a similar one did use it and did like it.  I called Kiwi Grip and talked to them on the phone.  I have a lot of crazing and I want something to SEAL my deck before water permeates to the core. The Kiwi rep told me I would want to put a barrier primer underneath.  That sort of defeated the purpose for me.  I was hoping for a one coat finish with Kiwi Grip.   So, my current plan is:  Paint deck with Interlux 1000/1001 barrier coat to lock out moisture. I will probably then go over with a deck paint of some sort for appearances.  IF your deck is intact and the gel coat is in good shape, my sense is you could apply the Kiwi Grip right over the existing gel coat with a light hand sanding.  You would not have to sand down to the gel coat.  I would just sand lightly to put "teeth" in whatever is there already.   

Please know where I come from.  I have a 1968 Pearson. It's an old boat. The bottom is in good shape, not great, but it is free from blisters. I bottom paint annually. It is structurally sound. It is not very pretty (which kills me). I race it every thursday. For some reason it is still pretty fast as I am competitive in club racing, winning my fair share of races.  I want to keep water out, but I am also leery of putting more into the boat than it is worth.  Before I put 10 grand into a bottom and deck restoration at a boatyard, I would probably sell it and buy a newer boat. I don't consider myself capable of a full bottom and deck restoration at age 68.  So keep my perspective in mind.  Not giving advice.  Just telling you what I plan to do.  

Cheers.  Ron

Ron-- I have a few more questions about doing your deck.


1) When you did the top-coat on the deck in KiwiGrip-- did you paint the whole thing or tape off the traction areas?

2) If you didn't cover the whole deck with KiwiGrip-- what did you use for top coat of the other areas?

3) If upon inspection, my deck is solid-- it says that KiwiGrip can be applied over old non-skid. Do you think the sanding down to the gel coat and adding a barrier coat is still necessary?

3) If we do have to grind and sand everything down, I worry that it will be a really big job. Do you see any way to do a resurface in stages over a couple of seasons? (probably not, but wishful thinking).


#scaredtotacklethis.


Hi Gay. Don’t worry- I was in a similar state of selective ignorance but it served me fine as I’m sure it will you.


In my case it was obvious that there was no structural support left in the rear deck and any pressure on the top fiberglass skin proved that it took a serious amount of deflection before it came in contact with anything else. In my case, with the carpenter ants eating or displacing the majority of the mushy balsa, you would push on the top skin to create a divot of about 1/4” before it touched the opposite skin.


I got the rotten material scooped out and what was left has dried out. I’ve attached a few photos in case you’re interested.


I was on the fence about exploring a potential problem with the cabin floor/mast step. I couldn’t help myself and took the oscillating multitool to it the other night. Was just as rotten as the aft deck.... look out for another post detailing that project shortly.



Thank you for the pics! My deck looks about like that, minus the ants...ugh.. that must have made you glad you started the project. 

Could you feel the spongyness when you walked on the deck? What hint did you have that it was compromised?

I feel like I have launched our boat year after year in blissful ignorance of troubles that could lie hidden. Wondering if I should drill some holes this year to inspect....



Sent from my Galaxy


Hello, Gay. I have attached some photos of my work in progress. There is obvious evidence of the previous owner's paint job having failed- that's the brighter, bigger flakes of white in the photos. My bigger concern is the crazing that seems to be happening with the original gel coat underneath all that. I suppose I won't know until I try but what I have been wondering is whether some quality time with my Dewalt random orbit sander and a fat stack of 60 grit paper discs will take care of it enough to use standard one-part primer and a suitable topcoat, or if I need something more viscous to fill in these small cracks and remain flexible enough so that they don't come back right away. That would mean going the two-part epoxy primer route (like the Interlux 2000e, or I'm also looking at the SeaHawk Tuff Stuff high-build epoxy primer since it comes in a half-gallon (2 Qts) kit which seems like it'd be about right for just the deck).


I am undertaking a re-coring of the aft deck so I took the first steps of cutting out the top skin so that I can scoop out the spongy balsa. You should have seen how high I jumped when the first of thousands of half-inch black carpenter ants started streaming out of my first cut. I expected some challenges but I was NOT prepared for that....


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These pictures make me feel better.

Hello, Gay. I have attached some photos of my work in progress. There is obvious evidence of the previous owner's paint job having failed- that's the brighter, bigger flakes of white in the photos. My bigger concern is the crazing that seems to be happening with the original gel coat underneath all that. I suppose I won't know until I try but what I have been wondering is whether some quality time with my Dewalt random orbit sander and a fat stack of 60 grit paper discs will take care of it enough to use standard one-part primer and a suitable topcoat, or if I need something more viscous to fill in these small cracks and remain flexible enough so that they don't come back right away. That would mean going the two-part epoxy primer route (like the Interlux 2000e, or I'm also looking at the SeaHawk Tuff Stuff high-build epoxy primer since it comes in a half-gallon (2 Qts) kit which seems like it'd be about right for just the deck).


I am undertaking a re-coring of the aft deck so I took the first steps of cutting out the top skin so that I can scoop out the spongy balsa. You should have seen how high I jumped when the first of thousands of half-inch black carpenter ants started streaming out of my first cut. I expected some challenges but I was NOT prepared for that....

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